RON GILLIO: Well, Abe Kosoff is a big standout in my memory because when Ifirst started, he was in Encino, California. And then he moved to Palm Springs. AndI used to go and visit him and do business with him and buy coins from him. Not somuch in the 70s. I really didn't start buying coins from him until the 1980s. Butthrough the 80s and 90s, I did business with him. And he was a sharp dresser. Hewas very diplomatic, always just perfectly dressed. And he was very fair. He alwaystreated me very well as most of those dealers during that time did. But he was close,so I could readily, you know, go see him and buy a few coins. And then he startedgiving me coins at consignment to sell for him, which was good. So, I did that.And I'll never forget the time that he called me one time. This is, I believe, couldhave been the 80s or maybe early 90s. He called me and said he's got something hewants to sell me. He wanted me to come to Palm Springs. And what it was, he wasvery friendly and partners with Sol Kaplan, who was another dealer at that time. AndSol had passed away. And he said, He says, And I'll never forget it because it was safetydeposit box and safety deposit boxes full of coins and paper money. And so, I askedhim, He said, So, I figured outa price. I'll never forget the price because I ended up buying it for $126,000. Well, Ididn't have $126,000 at the time. I mean, I had money, but it was all tied up. So, Isaid, He says, I'll never forget that.I had, excuse me, I had that same relationship with several dealers that Bob Johnson,Sam Coppell in Los Angeles. These are people that were icons in the industry at thetime. And they always treated me very fairly. Always willing to loan me money orsell me coins, pay me later. And of course, I always paid them. So, they kept sellingto me. But no, Abe was a fantastic gentleman.

GREG BENNICK: I really like hearing that. And I actually have a couple of peoplein the industry who have sold me coins. One in particular that I remember just lastyear sold me a quite expensive counterstamp coin. And I couldn't possibly pay for itat the time. And he wrote on the invoice, , meaning I'm notallowed to die until I pay him. Once I pay him, I can do whatever I want. I can payhim whenever I can, but no dying allowed. I'm not allowed to die before I pay theinvoice for this coin. So, I'm half looking forward to paying it off, but I also don'twant to pay it off because I don't want to start dying. But it's always good to havepeople like that in the industry who are willing to support you. And it sounds likeyou had that support from some icons in the industry as well.

RON GILLIO: Yeah, I know. And just going back to the Silver Certificate days,Sam Coppell in Los Angeles, one of the dealers that I was buying Silver Certificatesfrom, and one time I couldn't pay him. I'll never forget it because not only he said, He says, He said, And he charged me some kind of interest. So, no, I had a big support. Andanother one was Lester Merkin in New York who really helped me out, who wasintroduced to me by Bob Johnson on one of our trips to New York. And Lester wasanother gentleman.

GREG BENNICK: Now, Lester was doing quite a few auctions. I know that I ownquite a few of his auction catalogs. I know he was doing auctions constantly. Youwere doing auctions as well, either at the time or shortly thereafter. Isn't that, right?

RON GILLIO: Well, like I said, in 1967-68, I was in the auction business with PaulKoppen here where I had auctions in Van Nuys. Then I started having my ownauctions at the Long Beach Coin Show in the 90s, maybe late 80s.

GREG BENNICK: Okay. So, it was a bit later, but still.

RON GILLIO: Long Beach Coin Show and different coin shows, I would haveauctions. They started about 1983 because I had a certified coin auction when PCGSstarted in 1986. And then I also started having auctions in Hong Kong and I startedrunning shows in Hong Kong in the 1980s. So totally, I had auctions in Hong Kong,Japan, and the US. I had a total of about 80 some odd auctions all through my career.

GREG BENNICK: Now, the auctions that you were doing in Hong Kong andJapan, because we focused our conversation so far on Switzerland, how did youmake it over to Hong Kong and Japan? And were you buying and selling Chinesecoins and Japanese coins or were you selling US coins in Hong Kong and US coinsin Japan?

RON GILLIO: In Japan, it was an interesting question you asked because one ofthe coins that's really popular in Japan is a $10 Indian gold coin. It was used forjewelry. This is in the 1990s now, maybe late 1980s. But I would go to Switzerland,buy rolls of $10 Indians, 50 coins through a roll, fly directly from Zurich to Tokyoand sell them there. And that kind of got me interested in also Asian coins. So, Istarted dealing in Japanese coins. I'd find Japanese coins in Europe and then I'd bringthem to Japan and sell them. Same thing with the Chinese coins. I got interested inthe Chinese coins. So, I started buying the Chinese coins in the United States alongwith the Japanese coins and then selling them in Japan and Hong Kong. And thennot buying, I never really bought too much US coins in Asia. I did buy some, but notvery many.

GREG BENNICK: Were people in Hong Kong and Japan, were they interested inslabbed coins as that took off or were they more interested in raw coins like youmentioned for jewelry?

RON GILLIO: Well, during the time I was doing it, there was just raw coins. Imean, I did go to Japan. I did take David Hall to Japan on a trip. We went to a coinshow together and I helped him promote PCGS. This was in '88, '89. And theystarted getting interested in the slabbed coins then, which they are now. But duringthe time when I went over there, there was really no slabs yet. It didn't really kick inuntil the 90s. So, most of my auctions were raw coins and I'd get quite a fewconsignments from people in Hong Kong at the time for Chinese coins in myauction. But yeah, that was my extent of the auction business. And then I hadauctions in San Francisco with Bob Johnson and Butterfield's Auction Gallery. Andlike I said earlier, now I'm with Stack Bowers getting consignments for StackBowers auctions.

GREG BENNICK: You mentioned the Long Beach show. When did you first startgoing to the Long Beach show?

RON GILLIO: Long Beach show started in '63 or '64. I started going around thatsame time, around the first or the second show. It's interesting. I don't know if manypeople know how the Long Beach coin show got started, but I'll tell you the story.

GREG BENNICK: Please do.

RON GILLIO: So, the big show, as I said earlier, was the Southern CaliforniaNumismatic Association at the Statler-Hilton in Los Angeles. It was a big show. Andthere were two-coin dealers that got kicked out of the show. It was Ray Lungernfrom Century Stamp & Coin in Los Angeles and Sam Frodicus from, he had a coinshop in Long Beach, California. They got kicked out of the show for some reason. Idon't know why. They wouldn't let them have a table. So, Sam, Trader Sam and RayLungern just decided to have their own show and they opened the show in LongBeach. So that's what got Long Beach started. I think it's again; I think it's 1964. Andso, they started the show in Long Beach. And so, I attended the Long Beach coinshow every year since the sixties. And then I bought it from the owners at the time,which was Sam Lopresto in 1992. And then I ran it from 1992 to 2005. And then Isold it to David Hall at PCGS and PCGS still owns it.

GREG BENNICK: What was it like running the Long Beach show? I mean, youmust've been the focus of a lot of attention, but also probably had to put out a ton ofenergy and coordinate so many different people. And just what are your memoriesof that?

RON GILLIO: Well, since I had the experience of running the coin show in thepast and running auctions, I mean, I had a grasp of how to do it. And it was just likeyou said, it was just coordinating people. I had a good staff of people working forme and organizing the show and you'd hire a decorator. And the biggest challengewas dealing with all the dealers, you know, want everything a certain way, which isokay. So, it was an interesting experience. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed running the show.And I mean, at the same time running the show, I still attended the show and boughtand sold coins.

GREG BENNICK: Now, as I understand it, I might be completely off base here. Iunderstand that the early Long Beach days were meaning people describethat the feeling of the show was more energetic. There was crazy things happening.The impression I got from talking to some people. And again, I might be totally offbase and just hearing the impression of one or two wild party goers was that it wasalmost like, just like this, like wild scene at the Long Beach show. Is that true? Orcan we put that rumor to rest? And it was just an amazing coin show that justhappened to be a lot of fun.

RON GILLIO: Well, it was, the coin show was always very exciting, veryenergetic. There was a lot of things going on around the coin show, like poker gamesand wild parties. I would imagine. I mean, I sort of remember some myself, but itwas very, things were different then because we didn't have the internet during thatmajority of the time that I went to the Long Beach show. So, it was exciting to seewhat you could find at the show. And a lot of dealers would come just to sell at theshow. And a lot of dealers would come just to buy as they do today. And it was veryexciting. It was very exciting.

GREG BENNICK: Sounds great. Now what's overall, even Long Beach aside,what has been your favorite show to attend over the years?

RON GILLIO: Favorite show. Well, I mean, I think the most interesting show andmy favorite show is the American Numismatic Association shows, because that'seven like just recently in Pittsburgh, it's a show you go to, you see some people, youonly see them there. And that's the only show that they go to, whether it be collectorsor dealers. And it's a who's who of people, numismatists and collectors and importantpeople in our industry. And there's a lot of great educational talks. I always take timeout to go see the exhibits. And so, I would say my favorite is the ANA shows.Although I like going to the shows, I still go to shows in Europe, which are a littlebit different than the shows here, even the way they display their merchandise. Sothose are always fun to go to, too. I still attend some of those.

GREG BENNICK: How do they display their merchandise differently?

RON GILLIO: Well, today, like the last European show I was at was in Monaco.And you go to the show and there's some standard tables that have the showcasesand the coins in the showcase. But traditionally, and there's still a majority of thedealers lay their coins out on little trays. No, not in showcases. They lay them onlittle trays where you can actually pick up the coins and look at them or even theslabs. They're not in cases and they just display things different is what they do.

GREG BENNICK: It's interesting you mentioned that because I know that Morton& Eden has an auction of quite exquisite ancient Greek coins coming up. And whenI saw them recently, they had their coins just in trays and they were happy to showme coins that were well beyond what I would be purchasing. But they absolutelypulled them out, said, And it was a really different experience than justseeing trays of slabbed coins, of course, in cases.

RON GILLIO: Right. And like I say, they're not even at the European shows whereI saw Morton & Eden's show in Pittsburgh too, where they're laid out on just on thetable, not even in cases. So, it's just another way of doing business. And the samething, especially the European auctions in London, whereas you're bidding on thecoins, they're taking the coins around. There's like a horseshoe, the auctioneers, thepodium, and there's a horseshoe you can sit at tables. And as the lots come up, theytake them around. I don't think they do it too much anymore, but that used to be thesystem in London.

About the Interviewer
Greg Bennick (www.gregbennick.com) is a keynote speaker and long time coin collector with a focus on major mint error coins. Have ideas for other interviewees? Contact him anytime on the web or via instagram @minterrors.

To watch the complete video, see:
Ron Gillio Interview(https://archive.org/details/rongilliointerviewvideo)

To read the complete transcript, see:
Ron Gillio Interview (Transcript)(https://archive.org/details/gilliointerviewtranscript2)

To read the earlier E-Sylum article, see:
RON GILLIO INTERVIEW, PART ONE(https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n41a11.html)
RON GILLIO INTERVIEW, PART TWO(https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n42a17.html)
RON GILLIO INTERVIEW, PART THREE(https://www.coinbooks.org/v26/esylum_v26n43a18.html)